Density: without considerable addition of schools, firehouses, parking, subway capacity, street capacity, etc. the Ratner plan simply adds to an already over-burdened infrastructure. I thought he was clear on that, but that may be because I think about these things alot. The reason why I think about it alot is because of raw sewage. Brooklyn's sewer system is already completely inadequate. Not only does a substantial amount of raw sewage go right into the Gowanus canal, but every thunderstorm a substantial amount of raw sewage backs up into many basements. I suffered through this for years with as much as a foot of raw sewage backing up into my apartment, fountaining out of drains and pushing the toilet up so that it gushed from UNDER the toilet. The only way this can be fixed short of a substantial, Brooklyn-wide upgrade in the sewers and sewage treatment systems is for each and every building to install, at the costs of tens of thousands of dollars, pumps that force the sewage into the sewers at pressure. My building finally opted to do that, largely, though not completely, solving the problem. Of course for each building that installs pumps, all buildings downstream get even MORE sewage backing up unless they too can afford pumps. You can easily see that the poorest neighborhoods will wind up getting everyone's sewage eventually, and, of course, in the end the pumps just lead to more going into the canal.

Now add Ratner's super-dense plan with an arena and 17 skyscrapers. The sewer directly under the construction would of course be upgraded, so that development would be fine. But all of us downstream now get all that sewage. And there is no plan that I have heard to create more sewage treatment facilities to deal with that additional sewage.

This is a very real and very nasty problem that no Ratner supporter has addressed. The best I have heard is an assurance that the Empire State Development Corporation will take care of everything. How? At what cost? Who pays? What time scale for the upgrades? What is the PLAN? No answers.

Fires. Already Brooklyn is seeing a sudden peak of fires. Bloomberg closed several firehouses, so we don't have enough firehouses to cover the borough safely. Now add Ratner's plan with no companion plan to add firehouses or even re-open the already closed ones.

Schools...roads...parking...subways...it all is already overburdened and yet there seem to be few plans to upgrade to match the 17 skyscrapers and arena. That isn't even mentioning the loss of green space in both a per capita and absolute measure.

Process: I think the level of cronyism and corruption surrounding Ratner's plans is horrible! It isn't just circumventing an excessively Byzantine process. It is outright corruption. Again, I thought that was clear, but again it is something I already know about. What is going on is a law school buddy of Pataki's getting a near free pass. It is a low-bid getting chosen over a higher bid. It is also a situation where the state wants to hire Ratner's own lawyer at Ratner's expense to help judge Ratner's development plan. That becomes its own Byzantine system of corruption! It also is a process beset by lies where people who never were on board with Ratner have been claimed to be on board. Information has been distributed to the public that purports to show the Ratner plan but completely leaves out the skyscrapers and puts a non-existent park where the arena will be, thus comepletly misrepresenting the plan. Then there are the secret deals where surrounding properties have already been promised to Ratner without any reviews, something that only came to light thanks to a DDDB FOI request. Lies and corruption are rife in the process as it has been carried out by Ratner, Bloomberg, Pataki and Markowitz. Promises are not being kept. Lies are being told. Cronies get what they want while even higher bidders get pushed aside and uncooperative residents get threatened.

So I don't see that the "it's too big and too corrupt" arguements as being thin to support. I see them as overwhelmingly supported.

And how does the Ratner plan privilege people already living in the area when at least half (now more) will be priced far beyond their means, and quite possibly within a matter of years ALL of it will be priced out of their means? The plan will displace the current population, or at least most of it, and replace it with far more and far wealthier people. Your asserted result would be an economic disaster for Forest City Ratner.

Your arguement really makes no sense. You are greatly increasing the office and housing space of the area, mostly with far higher priced properties than are currently available for families and small businesses. Unless you are assuming that the new spaces will never be even remotely filled, there HAS to be an increase in the burden on the infrastructure. How can there not be when you are going from brownstones and small businesses to 17 skyscrapers? The number of housing units will be greatly increased, the amount of office space will be greatly increased, the arena will be added, and all will be priced mostly beyond the means of existing residents and businesses. In essence you are replacing a segment of Brooklyn with a segment of Manhattan with all the implications on price and density that implies.

Furthermore, you (like Ratner's propoganda pamphlet) completely ignore the arena. That of course doesn't impact schools, but it sure impacts roads, subways and sewage.

I am sorry, but it really seems to me that you are trying to argue that the Ratner project will simply give the existing population nicer and roomier accomodations. That is certainly NOT what it does.

Thank you for your disclosure regarding ACORN. I realize that some very good people are behind Ratner and I have in general respected ACORN. But arguements that ignore the massively increased density, the lack of guarantees regarding affordable housing and the existence of the arena don't wash with me. Nor am I happy that people I otherwise respect are willing to ignore the corruption and cronyism that the Ratner project has been surrounded by. This has been one of my problems from the start regarding Ratner and many of his supporters. The information provided is often incomplete and inaccurate, many aspects of the deal and future deals are done in secrecy and seem shady, and the existence of an alternate plan that also provides for jobs and affordable housing is ignored.