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Will Gatemouth Endorse Steve Harrison Now?

[UPDATE: Forgot to mention. Rosalie caught this one, not me...even though I looked before.]

When faced with two candidates, we have to weigh each candidate's positions carefully before choosing. The choice in the NY-13 Democratic Primary is not a clear cut one for various reasons. A few issues have to be considered.

1.) Candidate Mike McMahon publicly is anti-marriage equality. Candidate Steve Harrison is pro-marriage equality

2.) Candidate Mike McMahon has said contradictory statements regarding the Iraq war, telling the Conservative Party he supported Bush on this but telling progressives he opposed the war. He has consistently refused to answer any question regarding permanent bases in Iraq. Candidate Steve Harrison has clearly stated that he supports withdrawal from Iraq along a timeline similar to that proposed by Barack Obama and supported by the Iraqi government and opposes permanent US bases in Iraq.

3.) Both candidates have past or present ties to Republicans in the district and to the Conservative Party. For example, neither candidate is willing to support a Democrat running against Marty Golden for State Senate. Well, I have always pointed out that this is a conservative district so such ties are not unreasonable as long as they don't compromise that candidate's basic values as a Democrat.

The vocal anti-progressive blogger, Gatemouth, has repeatedly hammered at Steve Harrison for his past (back in 2002) support of the Conservative Party and Republican Marty Golden. This has been something of the deal breaker for Gatemouth, or at least judging by the words he has spent discussing Harrison's 2002 donations.

So let's look at McMahon. Since 2006 and continuing to this very year, McMahon for Staten Island has donated $2,550 to the Conservative Party of New York. I can speculate that the $475 McMahon donated in May, 2008, may well be part of the reason why the Conservative Party was considering endorsing him. This plus his anti-gay and pro-war stands (based on what he told them at the time) would make him an attractive candidate for the Conservative Party.

But how does Gatemouth feel? He has attacked Harrison over and over for his ties to conservatives in 2002. What about McMahon's ties to conservatives in 2008? Not to mention McMahon's May/June stand on supporting the Iraq War, which seems at odds with his June/July opposition to the war?

Now let me make clear that McMahon isn't the same as judicial candidate Roger Adler whose donations to Marty Golden and the Conservative Party year after year far outweigh his donations to Democrat, and who has never given to a Democrat for US Senate or the Presidency (though he gave to Al D'Amato for Senate and Rudy Giuliani for President). Mike McMahon may pander to the Conservative Party with both money and lip service against gays and for the Iraq War. But his donations overwhelmingly have supported the Democratic Party (like Steve Harrison after 2002). And again, NY-13 is a conservative district and BOTH Harrison AND McMahon are bound to have past and present ties to conservatives.

But if Gatemouth is so unforgiving of past conservative connections for Steve Harrison, can he possibly forgive present support by McMahon for conservatives? I can only assume that, based on his past rants, Gatemouth is about to turn against McMahon lest he be considered a hypocrite.

mole333's picture

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ChrisK's picture

Easy question

The vocal anti-progressive blogger

If that is an accurate characterization of G's writings/speech then the answer to whether he will switch his support is obvious. No.
If anti-progressive means pro-machine then McMahon is The Man.
McMahon will do what he is told and the Permanent Government will rest easy. The Brooklyn/S.I. deals and steals will continue on their merry way.

databob's picture

no inconsistancy just a

no inconsistancy just a loudmouth Conservative who hates McMahon

http://www.mikemcmahonforcongress.com/iraq.html

mole333's picture

Really?

That's not how it sounded to witnesses. And if the Conservative Party doesn't like him why all the donations from McMahon over 3 years?

And what about permanent bases in Iraq? Will McMahon commit to opposing permanent bases in Iraq? Is he willing to define "responsible withdrawal?" Harrison has signed onto the Responsible Withdrawal from Iraw plan along with Eric Massa and other good progressives and they have defined what they mean by responsible withdrawal. Will McMahon similarly define what he means?

Seriously. It is long past the time for being wishy washy on the Iraq Quagmire. We need straight, clear answers from McMahon. Would he like to clarify for Daily Gotham?

ROSALIE907's picture

Gee Databob

Nice of you to find your way to The Daily Gotham.

Gothanonymous Reader's picture

At the very least, look at McMahon's site

He's got a whole page up discussing various issues (and there are more issues coming). You can see it here: http://www.mikemcmahonforcongress.com/issues.html

You wrote "2) Candidate Mike McMahon has said contradictory statements regarding the Iraq war, telling the Conservative Party he supported Bush on this but telling progressives he opposed the war. He has consistently refused to answer any question regarding permanent bases in Iraq."

McMahon's Iraq policy on that site explicitly answers this:

"Our Constitution provides Congress with the power to fund wars, and with the right to make laws regarding the use of military force. If elected, I will use this authority to end our misguided policies in Iraq. Our policy must follow three principles:

1. We must immediately begin to remove our combat troops from Iraq, but this must be done gradually and cautiously. We cannot allow chaos to break out and endanger our troops as we draw down their numbers. Furthermore, non-combat troops must be allowed to continue their current work in Iraq, including protecting our embassy and diplomats, and training the Iraqi military. We must also be prepared to carry out targeted strikes on any terrorist camps, should they form in Iraq once our combat troops have left.

2. We must be clear that it is not the policy of United States to build and maintain permanent military bases in Iraq. Any attempt to establish a permanent military presence in Iraq will disrupt efforts to create a stable, sovereign Iraqi government. It would undermine trust in our government by increasing the suspicion of American motives, both in Iraq and throughout the Middle East.
...
If elected, I will be a strong advocate for responsible efforts to end the war in Iraq, and I will push to make sure that Congress does not grant more war funding without also ensuring that plans for our withdrawal are being designed and enacted. We must thank our soldiers for their service by bringing them home safely, responsibly, and as soon as possible."

Your argument is McMahon is saying X, but someone opposing his candidacy said he said Y. If the Conservatives claimed Steve Harrison said he supported Iraq, would you trust what Harrison said publicly and published on his website, or what the Conservatives said he said?

You write that neither would support a challenge to Marty Golden - where did you get that from? Harrison has supported Golden in the past and donated thousands of dollars to him. McMahon hasn't. Please tell me what led you to beleive that McMahon also supports Golden?

Do some basic research.

mole333's picture

Few points

First of all, I did miss the paragraph that says no permanent bases. That is a clarification since he was asked a direct question by a fellow DG writer. Thanks for pointing it out. I am glad repeated pressure has gotten him to clarify.

As to the conversation with the Conservative Party guy, my understanding is that was in front of many witnesses and even some McMahon supporters I know have conceded that he may well have told the Conservative Party something a little different than what he told Daily Gotham. Sorry, that story was well reported and this spin is only coming up now. Face it. McMahon HAS ties with the Conservative Party and has been trying to use them and has said things that might help him get their help. Seems the love affair may be fading though. Perhaps the fading Conservative Party link helps McMahon clarify his position. But he was caught being a bit slippery.

As to the Marty Golden issue, I know many people who have felt out a Golden challenge and been warned off by many Democrats. Of course naming names isn't always an option. However, if McMahon wants to publicly come out for a push to get rid of Marty Golden, I can hook him up with a couple of organizations that will work with him. Let me know. It would sure go a long way to offsetting those Conservative Party donations McMahon has made over the past three years and the almost endorsement by the Conservative Party. I will be the first to publicize it and praise it if McMahon makes a real effort to unseat Golden. But to date the evidence I hear from several sources says he won't do that.

Gatemouth's picture

I'm puzzled

If, as Bouldin implies, my work is so long and impossible to read, and my opinions so discredited, that no one takes me seriously, how come I was the subject yesterday of pieces on both here and Room 8 (as well as a verbatim reprinted on "DaBrinker")?

I haven't posted a piece on the 13th CD in 29 days, and see nothing on the horizon that would motivate me to do so again. McMahon's campaign is mostly about creating an aura of inevitabilty, in the manner of Eliot Spitzer, while Harrison's is about whining--I could care less. I've not endorsed either man, and do not intend to; and I do intend to endorse which ever of them wins the primary.

Harrison has at least raised issues about McMahon's stances, but in a strange manner. Sometimes it is to legitimately disagree with a McMahon position, whether it be marriage equality, where Harrison is right, or the 2002 property tax increase, where Harrison is dead wrong (although, I am puzzled what the point of that issue is in a Congressional race--is Harrison trying to imply that McMahon is one of those tax and spned liberals?)

Other times, Harrison articluates a position, says McMahon disagrees with it, and McMahon says "no, I don't". Then Harrison says, "maybe, but I've held the position for longer".

I've looked long and hard to find evidence that either of these guys publicly opposed the war before they decided to run for Congres, and it's just not there. There are a couple of things which imply a prior anti-war position for McMahon (his support for Howard Dean), but they don't prove it. A McMahon supporter cited a statement, I think at the funeral of a soldier, where McMahon said the war had gone on for too long, but this may not have been a call to end the war--it could have been a weary prayer that we finish the job quickly and go home, which I think is the hope of most war supporters as well--or it may really have been an anti-war statement--I dunno. I do know that Harrison's been running for Congress longer, so his unequivocal statement came earlier, though I'm not sure it matters.

As to domestic issues, I think my last piece on the matter (http://www.r8ny.com/blog/gatemouth/taxman.html) made clear that where the two men disagree, I generally (but not invariably) find Harrison's positions more palatable, especially on social issues. But I also made clear my problems with Harrison's inability to admit he's moved steadily to the left on those issues, and in his general politics, over the years, without ever admitting he's done so, or articulating his rationale. This year, Harrison's supporters have attacked McMahon for being imperfectly pro-choice and supporting the death penalty for some crimes, even though Harrison said similar things (http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/29/38/29_38vito2.html) two years ago.

Then there is the matter of Harrison's contributions and campaign efforts in 2001-2003. During this period he contributed not only to the Conservative Party, but to multiple Republican camapigns (City Council, Congresss--Fossella!-State Comptroller-State Senate)and contributed shoe leather and public endorsements as well. He was at the center of a race which helped Joe Bruno expand his Senate majority, and when called on the matter, said he supported the REPUBLICAN-CONSERVATIVE-RIGHT TO LIFE TICKET because of zoning. Apparently, in 2002, zoning was more important than opposing the war or supporting a woman's right to choose. Is this the way they feel at the Daily Gotham as well? In this effort, Mr. Harrison helped to oust an anti-death penalty Democrat in favor of a pro-death penalty Republican. The next year, he ran a far right wing campaign for City Council targetted to Republicans and Conservatives. Now, Mr. Harrison runs as the candidate of progressive purity without ever acknowledging any evolution in his views. By contrast, Mr. McMahon has at least admitted he was intitially worng about the war.

As to Mr. McMahon's Conservative contributions, they are a bridge too far. Mike Cusick, who runs in the mid-Island, has a good excuse for seeking Conservaitve support in his Assembly race--Mr. McMahon does not need the Conservative Party to win his north shore council seat. But, while Mr. McMahon has paid his fee for rental of the Conservative line more than once, he's not endorsed right wing Republicans against Democrats in crucial races--I don't thinks he's done it at all. There is no Marty Golden in his closet. So, while I am impressed with Rosalie's detective work, I don't see the moral equivalency.

Btw, Mole is absolutely correct that both Harrison and the Brooklyn organization have not been encouraging to those who'd like to see a challenger to Mr. Golden, and that's probably restrained version of the facts. If Mr. McMahon really means what he says, and with Diane Savino (who tried to recruit Harrison for the race against Golden) in his corner, there is at least a theoretical chance he might, then that is a cause for celbration. It should be noted that, at the time a challenger was needed for Golden, McMahon had no intent of running in any race involving Brooklyn, so we really can't know from his actions this year whether he is sincere. However, I'm from Missouri on this one--he'll have to show me, and I'm not holding my breathe.

Finally, nothing here has shaken my position that McMahon is the stronger candidate by almost every possible meansure of strength. Given the Republican disarray, and the unpalatablity of the Republican choices (Harrison's Brooklyn residence may not be a liablity against a candidate who lives in Manhattan) this may not matter, but I think the Republicans will write this seat off if McMahon is nominated, but will make an effort if Harrison is. That would force us to divert resources which could otherwise be used elsewhere. I am reminded of the Casey-Santorum race. The results ultimately showed that a more liberal Democrat could have won that seat, but if we had nominated such a candidate, we would have had to divert the miilions which ultimately pulled out victories for Tester and Webb.

So I'm not endosring Harrison, but I'm not endorsing McMahon either.

mole333's picture

Inevitability?

You mean like Hillary CLinton and Rudy Giuliani?

It is true that money more often than not determines who will "inevitably" become the candidate unless you have a situation like Recchia where money is trying to compensate for zero name recognition. That isn't the case with McMahon. My opposition to McMahon started with the Conservative Party (the conversation, which as I understand it was widely witnessed, that led the Conservative Party to consider endorsing McMahon because of his war stand) and continues with the Conservative Party (his recent donations).

I am not looking back to 2002. I knew what a greedy, corrupt, stupid fiasco the Bush administration and its war was in 2002. But it sure seemed like not many others even in the Democratic leadership saw it that way. Chuck Schumer and Hillary Clinton were swinging wildly to the right in terror of being labeled "soft on terrorism." How could any Staten Island or Bay Ridge politician do otherwise without really amazing foresight?

I am looking at what is going on now when no one who isn't a Bush-follower supports the war. McMahon's statements on his website make a lot of sense, though are vague on details that Harrison and the others who have signed on to the Responsible Plan to end the war are much clearer on. In the absense of other data I would have taken McMahon's word at face value with the caveat that he has been too vague on details. But two things belie those statements on the website: the near endorsement by the Conservative Party and McMahon's considerable financial support of the Conservative Party. These aren't from 2002, but from right now, 2006-2008 during the exact period where Democrats are winning by veering away from the right and from Bush's war. McMahon seems to be courting those who support Bush's war at exactly the wrong time. And the response from McMahon's camp (possibly by someone on taxpayer time?) has been to deny the comments about the war that led to a near Conservative Party endorsement. Something stinks about that. It doesn't strike me as plausible. So I remain suspicious.

With Harrison I feel you know exactly where you stand. Even when I disagree with him, I feel he is up front and honest about where he stands and why. I will always respect that more than politicians who become slippery when cornered. If you look at McMahon's statements on the war, from the Conservative Party discussion to the direct questions asked by Daily Gotham, to the questions asked by the NY Times (I would note well AFTER the Daily Gotham cornered him) to his website, there hasn't really been a consistent answer. At a bare minimum it indicates a campaign that hadn't really thought how it would answer questions about the most important issue facing America today before McMahon threw his hat into the ring. That seems just a bit sloppy to me. At worst it indicates a politician who isn't being honest about where he stands. I personally do not have the information to judge which it is. But simply wishing the Conservative Party Discussion away, which seems to be the McMahon tactic right now, isn't going to reassure me.

As to Golden, I hear different things from McMahon's campaign and from other connections I have. But I am serious that if McMahon is willing to help take on Golden (and I believe Savino is as well), I am open to working with him and I know some organizations who are as well, and one at least is currently on the fence about Harrison vs. McMahon, so taking me up on this now could well benefit McMahon unless Harrison also steps up to the plate in getting rid of Golden. But in Harrison's case the connection is more personal and sometimes personal history trumps politics.

Gatemouth's picture

I'll keep it short

I never said McMahon was inevtable--I said his campaign was endeavoring to create that aura of inevitability, and it was suceeding, at least on the Rock. Republican ineptitude has contributed no small part to this impression.

I did say McMahon was the stronger general election candidate, and I stand by it. You have the right to say that this no longer matters, and the right to uphold purity over victory; at least you've been consistent on such matters, sticking (I think misguidedly) with Dahroug as well. Others, for whatever reasons, seem to embrace different metrics for different races.

I'll skip the rest, since we will never agree on it, and go straight to Golden. The only one whose word I take here without caveats is Savino's, because she is in charge of candidate recruitment. I don't believe Harrison will ever agree to help beat Golden, and my guess is that McMahon will only put some effort into it if it proves convenient at the time. I would be happy if both Harrison and McMahon proved me wrong.

mole333's picture

You kept it short...

I do stick with candidates that I think are the best candidates. I have found that Democrats do best when they offer a genuine alternative to Republicans. I am unconvinced that McMahon offers that, though I am willing to be proven wrong about that as well.

I am open to Foley, though so far see no reason to switch from Dahroug. I have written about McMahon because he has given fodder for it, in essence trying to play both progressives and the Conservative Party and he got caught at it. And he needs a better response than he has given to date. Simply put, McMahon is too Conservative for my tastes and yet hasn't been as upfront about it as he should. Foley, to my mind, hasn't done anything to get me writing anything negative about him. I back Dahroug because I see no reason to switch. But I also see no reason to oppose Foley actively. McMahon has given me reason to oppose him because of his anti-gay and slippery war stand. IF he stands by what is written on his website regarding the war, fine. But he has left himself enough wiggle room in his wording to accomodate whatever he said to the Conservative Party. Bottom line, I feel I can trust Harrison and not McMahon so far. I have been wrong about politicians before, but more often my instincts have been good. To me Dahroug/Foley is different than Harrison/McMahon.

As to Golden, I agree. But if McMahon's people are claiming he's ready to support a challenge to Golden, I am willing to take him up on it.

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