We can also blame Vito for Golden and Bruno's continued reign. But Harrison does indeed admit that he supported Golden at the time..., Golden had only recently changed parties and they were at the time allied on development issues that eventually led to a better plan on development than we have out our end of the world. And remember that those who Harrison split with over development issues when he supported Golden have long ago made up with Harrison and strongly supported him for Congress in 2006...actually DOING something for him rather than just giving him lip service like Recchia.

So as for opportunistic weasels, why did Recchia endorse Harrison in 2006 (delivering nothing of course) then suddenly decide he'd be a better candidate himself? What changed? The only change I see is the fact that the DCCC was convinced by Harrison's last run that the race is worth their effort. And Recchia wants to reward Harrison's efforts by stabbing him in the back.

That's where this kind of answer belongs.

As to ignorance, I often defer to your non-trivial encyclopedic archive of trivia you carry around on your shoulders. It is quite useful. And one of the reasons why your posts rise above the average room 8 sniping. But the real red herring is ignoring the shifting alliances that existed at the time...and the development issue took a decade to unfold for that area. We are talking about alliances that started early in the period, and had shifted by the end. This is nothing new and ALL members shifted where they stood and where their alliances were as time went on. I think the largest shift was in Golden.

As to Harrison in 2006...here you are being about as misleading as you can without being outright inaccurate. Most of that tsunami you cite was accomplished with a very effective, very impressive coalition of local and national efforts, with DNC pouring in money, MoveOn.org phoning all over the nation from centralized phone banks, burning out the activists that were working for them, and even alliances between congressional candidates in NY State and in California wherein volunteers in New York would call for California races after it became too late in NY to call locally.

Harrison was provided with NONE of that kind of support. So to compare what he did to the general wave is comparing a local gang fight to the invasion of Iraq. It is about as close to a lie as you ever get.

What impressed the DCCC (publicly) and MoveOn.org (from the rumors I have heard from volunteers) was that Harrison managed to come closer to defeating Vito with no outside support, with a late start and being outspent more than 10:1. To MAKE it a competitive race when no one else thought it could be done and people like Lopez and Recchia seem not to have even WANTED it to be done, was an accomplishment that was rightly recognized as impressive by national organizations.

As to your accusations against Rosalie, well, you have your encyclopedic archive of local political trivia which is quite impressive in itself. Rosalie actually lives in the district, is represented by the people you and I merely discuss and snipe at, and has been the feet on the ground for Democrats in that area far more than I have and, from what I can tell, far FAR more than you have. Doesn't mean she is always right and you are always wrong, but I would suspect she has some perspective that you and I may not. And far more street credentials in the district, for what it's worth, than you or I have. Spend as much time as she does walking the district for candidates and then criticize. Of course you may do just that for Recchia in the end, for all I know. And I will respect that if you spend at least as much effort in the general as you do in the primary.

Which leads to another criticism I have of the Recchia camp, possibly excepting you. The Harrison camp has consistently been focused on defeating Vito Fossella since it was the Barbaro camp in 2000. Daily Gotham has been softening the ground for the Democrats all along, keeping Fossella's support for Bush and scandals in the public view constantly. Recchia supporters mainly came out of the woodwork when Vito Lopez decided it was time for Recchia to run...and they have focused most of their attention of Harrison, not Fossella. Daily Gotham, as I recall, was hardly ever critical of Recchia until the weight of the Recchia camp's nastiness and Recchia's Dear Endorsement pretty much pissed us off enough to take up the gauntlet. Prior to that, speaking for myself anyway, I was pro-Harrison but not necessarily anti-Recchia. Now, to quote a fellow Brooklyn activist, Recchia makes me wretch. Much of that, under it all, stems from the fact that Recchia came out swinging against Harrison without ever really being part of the forces that actually fought against Fossella. Johnny come lately to the party, it seems, in action if not in registration.

Ask Steve. A similar discussion regarding what to think of a Conservative Party connection came up in discussing McCall vs. Dear at CBID.

How I judge things is this: Steve went to bat in 2006 and did better than anyone else against Vito. His doing so got the attention of the national Dem Party and the national grassroots organizations. It also got the attention of all those local Dems who barely lifted a finger to win the seat in 2004 and 2006. I saw squat coming from Lopez and Reccia those years yet now they want to waltz in on the groundwork laid by others, from Barbaro and Harrison primarily, but also lots of hard working volunteers who generally Lopez and Recchia wouldn't give the time of day. But they are happy to stand on the foundation we laid and say, "aren't we wonderful leaders."

How I judge things is that Lopez stinks in much of what he does...even when what he does is over all pretty reasonable (Bob Miller, for example) the way it's done stinks. Even IF Recchia was all bells and banjos, the process by which they are doing it stinks. And the we finally had the endorsement of someone who isn't just conservative, but also unqualified. Harrison has been more level headed than that.

The district we are discussing is not your district or my district. But it fits Steve quite well. Yet he still publicly advocates gay marriage even THOUGH it is a conservative district. Support of Republicans from time to time is not going to be seen as a negative in that district...in fact it probably plays well in the district. If a mildly conservative Democrat can sell gay marriage and an end to the war in NY-13, more power to him. By contrast what value does Lopez and Recchia have in the district? If past performance is an indication (which it may not be) they mean nothing to the district. Of course they can maybe buy the primary, but chances are even if they succeed, the national party will have soured on a race where too much was spent in a useless primary and so Fossella wins again. Of course I have heard one theory that this is their plan...though as with many theories I wait to see what plays out for a bit to see if it makes sense. But Lopez/Bruno collaborating on Ratner seems part of a Bruno enabling pattern of Lopez's. Now, you blame Harrison for Bruno because Harrison supported Golden in the beginning. Fine. I never criticized you for bringing the topic up. But I have my doubts, given past behavior, that Lopez gives a crap about beating Golden, Fossella or Bruno, but seems quite happy with Bruno in power. I could be misjudging. Maybe Lopez just has been lazy or incompetent in his attempts to deal with Fossella and Golden. But my suspicion is he is doing behind the scenes what you accuse Harrison of doing in front.

Truth is, Harrison is a good fit for the distirct. I think that was what was most clear last year. I have seen no indication to date that Recchia is a better fit. His only advantage strategically is that he has the backing of Lopez...for what it's worth in the district.

You are trying too hard trying to catch Bouldin and me in some kind of grand hypocricy. Mostly we are using common sense to back people we trust and fight people we consider about as trustworthy as Richard Nixon on Meth. Mostly we trust those we have seen in the trenches trying to beat Republicans in the last few election cycles. And we trust those who are not so solidly bought and sold by developers. And we trust those whose decisions make some logical sense above and beyond raw self interest. Your buddies don't really cut it on any of these levels. Does Harrison? I wasn't expecting him to when I first met him in 2006. I did become convinced once I sat down, in a small group, and talked with the guy. Does Recchia want to come meet us and make his case? He can come meet the same group of people who welcomed Harrison's run in 2006. But remember, we already have been working with Harrison to unseat Fossella. I don't remember running into Recchia one single time during that period. Funny that. I guess he was too busy to fight for the Democratic Party in 2006. Don't expect me to trust someone who wants to muscle in without having been there with us the last 2 times.

And you haven't answered where Vito Lopez and the whole Recchia crowd were back in 2004 and 2006 when those who really cared were working their asses off trying to defeat Fossella. I am sick of the whole machine that doesn't give a damn about voters, laws, proper governance or even defeating Republicans. A more useless bunch of creeps I have never seen, so forgive me if I am not thrilled with Recchia suddenly discovering there is a Congressional race next door.

As to your assessments of various politician's worth, I have seldom found your insight about that even a tenth as useful as your ability to remember and report on local trivia. I listen to the latter, but scarcely find your recommendations of who to support and who not to support very useful except perhaps as a guide of what I SHOULDN'T do. As you well know I don't blindly dismiss your opinions...sometimes I listen to them more than you might want. But generally I find your taste in politicians far below your tastes on most other things.

And yes...it IS all about Bouldin and me. Well, really all about Bouldin. Hasn't he ever told you that?

An alternate theory is it's all about Gatemouth vs. Gary on WWF wrestling. At least that's how it sometimes seems reading over at room 8.

The dig at Boudlin was priceless. But, if you asked me, he's earned to right to be a narcisist.

Whatever arguments we may have with the boy, his talent is undeniable. Even come up with a brilliant insight more than twice a day.

To return to topic, I don't know why I should be put in the position of being obligated to defend Lopez. I don't think's he's done enough to win the Golden seat; in fact, he's clearly not done anything--which still beats helping to turn the seat Republican in the first place.

There are those (not me) who have argued that taking a dive on Golden helped elect Hyer-Spencer and served to benefit Harrison, because it kept the Senate Republicans from pumping money into the district. Never bought that argument, but I heard it from a district leader before petitions went out, and Harrison was part of his argument. Perhaps some (not all) of Steve's friends were still bent on helping Golden. BTW, my feelings about all this have been spelled out quite clearly on Room 8, and they are quite critical of this sort of thinking. I even made fun of those who claimed by Hyer-Spencer's victory vindicated their position.

Finally, your earlier point of Recchia running to lose is way off base. Dominick Recchia shares one qulity with Harrison: sefl importance. But unlike Harrison, he's not content with titles and other forms of koved--Recchia wants to win! He does not run to lose. Whether all his supporters feel that way is a different matter, but I'm sure if letting Fossella win is their intent, they made sure not to let Dominick know.

You're right, Recchia wants to win to serve his own ego. Here he is poor little Dominic Recchia term limited in 2009 and needing to find an office to run for, poor baby. Nadler who is Recchia's congressman isn't retiring, DeBlasio wants B.P. (which is actually what Recchia wants but Recchia's small potatoes to DeBlasio's circle)and being a high priced attorney isn't enough for him. Colton isn't retiring and neither is Kruger (or is his State Senator Cymkowitz - forgive the misspelling). So what's poor Dominic to do - easy beg his friends to let him run for Congress even though it's not his district. Dominic wants a title and he doesn't give a crap about how he gets it because if he had any common sense, knew the district or even cared about the district he wouldn't consider running.

As for Harrison, he was tapped in 2006 by Staten Island to run, even after McMahon who had nothing to lose (except living in DC when Congress was in session) turned down the opportunity. He's worked all his life for the community and if he lost I'm sure he would continue to work for the community. If he cared about a "title" then why didn't he run for office years ago? You show your ignorance and prejudice when you stated that only Recchia runs to win. What candidate would knowingly run for an office to lose? Give me a break. If you think that of Harrison maybe you should have been on the stump with him in 2006.

You know, the funny part is maybe if Dom would have helped Harrison in Gravesend and Bensonhurst we wouldn't be having this discussion but he didn't. Now you can take that back to your friend Dom.

Oh, by the way, I can't wait for the Sitts to completely understand that Dom can't do for them in Congress what he did as a Councilman

"If he cared about a "title" then why didn't he run for office years ago?"

As I recall, Harrison did run for office years ago, selling out his party (to the extent it ever was his party,) to help open up the seat.

Harrison's had the elective hot to trots for years, but he's seemingly always been more interested in running for office than preparing to do so. After he lost the 2003 special, he registed with the Campaign Finance Board to "keep his options open", but took no steps to actually keep them open. Engquist ran a funny item about it. In 2006, he raised no money, seeming to think Staten Islander would be bowled over by his magnificence. He could even replicate Barbaro's feat of carrying Brooklyn even though he was the beneificiary of a once ever quarter century landslide.

And Staten Island didn't tap him. As you've pointed out elsewhere, he started running for it in 2004, and my research indicates that 2004 is when he took a sudden interest in helping Democrats instead of Republicans, all of them, strangely enough, on Staten Island. Apparently he didn't make much headway, as they started seeking out people who'd actually shown they could do better than 4th place in an election. However, when they ran out of other options, they begged Harrison, the last man standing who'd shown any interest, to run with their support (such that it was). Once committed, they had the intergirty (and sanity) to stick with Harrison once DeBlasio suddenly showed interest.

As to Recchia's help, it's hard to see how one could make up a 14 point spread in one corner of the county that produced maybe a quarter of the votes, but perhaps you can outline your math. I promise you I'll outline mine in detail next time.

And what about the WWF match with you and Gary? I think most readers preferred that dig.

As to Bouldin, he most certainly HAS earned the right. I certainly hope he took the dig in good spirits...

I take your word on Recchia's running to win. I take all conspiracy theories with a grain of salt. But I also know that the machine can work in weird and convoluted ways.

I do notice, by the way, that you ignore the donations Steve made to Joanne Seminara AGAINST Golden when he first ran. And I think you still ignore the shifting alliances that the local politics, focused on development as they currently do in Park Slope.

As for your being put in a position to defend Vito Lopez...well, I would say you put yourself in that position. I know you break with the machine at times, and are critical of them at times, but you do often come off as Vito Lopez's apologist on the blogs. I know the situation is more complicated than that. But sometimes it is hard to see that...if you don't want to be in that position, you need to break with the machine when it really matters. Mostly it seems you break with them when it really doesn't make much difference. You hold me accountable for the actions of those I have sided with. I do the same with you. And in both cases, it is justified.