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Green spoiler in NY-26
Via MyDD:
The race for the congressional seat in New York's 26th Congressional district between Congressman Tom Reynolds and businessman Jack Davis is neck and neck according to new scientific polling information.
The survey was commissioned by Channel 2 News and was completed by Survey USA. It breaks down as the following:
45% Tom Reynolds (R)
43% Jack Davis (D)
8% Christine Murphy (G)
4% Undecided
Thanks a lot, guys. Just vote for the republican and save yourself the bother.
[Update]: Alrighty, the Green is off the ballot, and not of her own volition, either. Still, you have to wonder what drives a candidacy in a swing district. And with the Green gone, we have a chance to take out the chair of the NRCC - sweet.
http://dailygotham.com/blog/bouldin/green_spoiler_in_ny_26
Mouse over the text to select it, then press Ctrl-C to copy it.
read closer
Take a closer look at the article MYDD references, and you'll note that she's not even on the ballot...
http://www.wgrz.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=41478
Setting the Record Straight Fake Green Party Candidate in 26
Christine Murphy, not an enrolled Green, was thrown off the ballot through the many hours of hard work of the Green Party of New York State committee members in Western NY with the support of other state committee members from around the state.
Just like the Green Party 2004 Presidential candidate and his limited staff fought for the Ohio recount. Would have been an easier and a more principled stand for Kerry to throw some of his leftover millions and clout into that one.
See quote below from GP state committee discussion list:
This can happen when someone petitions as an independent (non ballot status) and then "names" their party.
The Green Party is working hard to get its ballot status back. It can then be privy to the election guidelines (somewhat) that the major, parties are instead of struggling with the unfair ballot access laws created by those two parties to keep all third parties and independents from gaining much ground.
Ballot status would have made it more feasible for Chris Owens to have successfully gained the Green Party line for the general election.
Spitzer is so far ahead Faso cannot see him. The WFP has sunk to new lows by "enthusiastically" supporting Clinton at the same time they publish their anti-war statement. The Green Party has a great group of statewide candidates including Malachy McCourt as their Governor candidate
and Howie Hawkins as the anti-war answer to those who do not want to vote for Clinton no matter what party line she is on.
It is a good time to vote for peace and social justice and help the Green Party get 50,000 votes in Nov. For those of you who really believe and are committed to having the Dems move to the left, it will only happen if candidates challenge them from that direction.
peace & struggle,
Glo Green
..and the point is what?
That's right, vote green to... do what exactly? Give the spoiler party a better chance to endanger Eliot's re-election? Help Giuliani carry New York in 2008?
The Dems aren't going to move to the left because of the Greens, in part because the Greens won't let them - it's not like they normally support even the best candidates, Chris Owens being a notable exception. More likely, the Dems would get the votes we need to win by moving to the right. That's what politics is about: creating majorities.
I wish sometimes people would think through what they're trying to do. Would save everyone so much bother.
Green party candidate kicked off ballot
From what I hear the green party candidate won't even be on the ballot so those votes are ours
might have to campaign a bit
Well, I wouldn't take the votes for granted. While I don't see her supporters going for the Republican, he might actually have to campaign to get them to vote Dem.
Dems always (mistakenly) assume the Green voters would automatically vote Dem if only given two choices. Greens are as varied and independent as any other voters, and can always choose to vote for 'none of the above'. There's not a whole lot of good polling info on this, but exit polls in 2000 showed that without Nader on the ballot, the votes would have split about 1/3 for Gore, 1/4 for Bush, and the rest would not have voted.
That's a lie
...about 70% of 2000 Nader voters would have voted for Gore. Not a lot of republicans think that the Democrats are too conservative.
now he's calling me a liar
WTF dude? If you're going to call me a liar - show me an exit poll. Is everyone else on this site going to just stand by and let this guy do this to me?
Nader got votes from 3 million people, from all sorts of people who were fed up with the two party system and the corporatization of politics in American, left right and center. While it may be true that half of Green party MEMBERS today might vote that way, sadly the Greens have never had anywhere near 3 million registered voters.
Also remember that Nader was polling as high as 7%-9% in the week before the election, and he got 3%, meaning that more than 50% of his supporters nationwide already made the decision to vote for someone else.
Is everyone going to let him do this?
Sorry. Not going to fight your battles. You quoted some figures first, he quoted different figures. You both need to back up your numbers if you want people to pay much attention to them.
A priori and based on my personal interactions with people, Michael's numbers sound right. But I don't know for the nation in general and a priori ideas, contrary to ancient Greek philosophy, can be bunk. So I am open to both figures...if someone backs them up.
For the record I have never, ever known a Republican to vote Green. Not in California, not in NYC. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but...
I will also say that Michael's basic point is sound. Greens DO help the Republicans too often (we've discussed this, of course) and that is why Republicans will help them with money and footwork...but as far as I have seen, not many votes. Believe me that my general trend towards opening up to cooperation with Greens (started when I led a group of Dems to support Mattera) is going to be pretty much at an end if they hand Republicans a key seat anywhere. I am still open to Greens...or perhaps re-open to them after my disillusionment in 2000. And I increasingly realize that progressives at least locally have to either forge links with Greens or with reform Democrats (who lean more moderate). Should the Greens repeat the disasterous mistakes of 2000, well, then the choice will be clear to me as well as many progressive Democrats I know locally. I know the local party may differ from the national or the Greens in other states. But the whole party will be tarred with the reputation as Republican dupes if there is any kind of repeat of 2000.
Now that may be fine with some Greens. But if the goal is to forge alliances with progressive Democrats, then the strategy will fail. I did some footwork for Mattera and I convinced some people to vote for her who otherwise would have either sucked it up for Marty or not voted at all for BP. I won't do that again if I become convinced Michael Bouldin is right about Greens.
rising to the bait
Once again, I rise to take Bouldin's bait...
http://prorev.com/green2000.htm
Some excerpts:
9,000,000 Dems voted for Bush in 2000
more than 500,000 dems in FL voted for Bush
6% of independents, 7% of Perot voters, but only 2% of Dems voted for Nader
Two way FL exit poll: Bush 49 - Gore 47 - Not voting 2% (when asked who they would vote for is Nader were not on ballot).
Gore couldn't freakin win his home congressional district, let alone his home state, which he and his family had represented for 50 years.
Where are your numbers to back up your outrageous claims, Bouldin?
WOW, Mike you really hate
WOW, Mike you really hate the Greens, I like it. People say I beat up on certain groups, you take the cake. Maybe all those cigarette breaks rubbed off on me.
haha
Don't blame me, Carroll
...hehe.
And just for the record, I don't "hate" the greens, I hate the republicans. So I guess that means I need to hate the Greens as well, seeing as how they ***help*** the republicans.
Green, I won't let him do this to you
I am sick and tired of this Green Party bashing. It just is so freaking easy to blame someone else for one's shortcomings, which in this case are the shortcomings of the Democratic Party. I bet if you asked any person who now supports the Green Party the majority of them would tell you that they, at one point, supported the Democratic Party, and that they have just grown tired of the lack of backbone the Democrats have shown in recent years. So if anyone is helping the Republican Party then it is the Democratic Party, and not the Green Party. The Democrats haven't been able to regain control of the House nor the Senate in ages. Is this also the Green Party's fault? I guess we all know the answer to this question. (BTW over 80% of voters are fed up with the way our two party Congress is conducting business regardless of the party)
May I also remind you that in 2004 the Green Party Candidate was first in line to call attention to the Ohio voter fraud? And a recount certainly wouldn't have been in his favor. And may I also remind you that the Democratic Party left John Conyers high and dry in the beginning of 2005? The Green Party will go out of their way to assure a fair election process based on our democratic values, something many members of the Democratic Party have forgotten in their quest to please Corporate America, and Corporate America alone.
Your bashing reminds of little kids arguing over who broke a toy and noone wants to take responsibility for it. The sad difference here though is that they are kids who still and hopefully learn to take responsibility for the mistakes they are going to make. But you are an adult who should know better, and start looking at where and when the Democrats have gone astray, and start to make a change there.
Bouldin why don't you redirect your apparent hatred for the Greens to those Democrats who are Republicans in disguise, who take bribes, who don't represent the people, but think of their own advancements and pocket books first. This will probably take you some time, but I am sure that with your tenacity you will wake up the establishment, and that if you applied the some eagerness to bash the Green Party to those Democrats who cause more harm then good then you will have done a good deed.
Yes...and no
Greens are split. Some really do reject Naderization of elections.
But some don't. Some really DO take republican money and support and go on to split the left vote and deliver a seat to a conservative Republican.
Boudlin has a major, important, CRITICAL point. If Greens ignore that point, they will lose many of us who have started to be open to Greens again. If Greens pull a Nader again, I for one, who supported a Green in Brooklyn in 2005, will NEVER, NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVRE NEVER support a Green again in my entire life. That is a reality that Greens need to deal with. Nader ruined their reputation and they need to convince many of us that they are NOT REpublican dupes.
Yar Yar Yar
...show me a Democrat that's as bad as Rick Santorum, Ann Coulter, George Allen, Trent Lott, Vito Fossella, whatever, and I'll get right to work. Until then, I'll stick to getting rid of the real problem, which is republicans, thank you very much.